No version of Deluge that works on all modern OSes

General support for problems installing or using Deluge
chorse
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No version of Deluge that works on all modern OSes

Postby chorse » Mon Mar 29, 2021 3:18 pm

Hi guys, using Deluge has been a bit of a PITA recently and I figured I'd hear your take before I make any decisions on jumping the ship.

I've been a Deluge user for years now and have a setup where I have a headless Deluge running on my Ubuntu 18.04 home server and use thin clients from my Ubuntu / Windows / OSX computers to control it - and this setup has worked really well for me.

A while back I inadvertently upgraded to Deluge 2.x before realizing there's no 2.x Windows/OSX clients. My bad, I rolled it back, went back to 1.3.

Now it's a year or so later and I upgraded my main machine Ubuntu to 20.04 - focal. As far as I can see there's no straightforward way of installing Deluge 1.3 on focal - it's only 2.x in the packages and the PPA, I think. Meanwhile, almost 2 years since the 2.0.0 release, there's no Deluge 2.x on either Windows or OSX (and the Download page has been throwing 500s over the weekend).

So what's the situation here, is it "we're not really supporting anything other than Linux, use Web UI or don't use Deluge at all"? Or is Deluge just a dying project? I don't think there' has been a release since June 2019.

Also, since I know this post already sounds like complaining, the

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What answer to the above question is named after a person?
question really makes little sense as a captcha, I had to google and find the closed ticket to manage to sign up for the forums. It's as good a tool as any in making sure the community doesn't get any bigger.

ashmandias
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Re: No version of Deluge that works on all modern OSes

Postby ashmandias » Mon Mar 29, 2021 3:42 pm

Deluge 2 works on Windows/OSX -- there is just no pre built package provided by the Debian project --which I believe is because no Windows/OSX user has stepped up and offered to take on that work load. Are you interested in helping out?

As for the catcha I agree it could be better, and easier for the windows users -- but generally speaking, all you really need to know are the 3 most common OSes -- and use process of elimination. Is Windows named after Bill Windows? Is there a Steve OSX wandering around ? :-D the argument could be made that Debian should be accepted (but it is named after 3 people) or some lesser known distros like Knoppix,

I agree that there are better captchas, but this one is not exactly esoteric trivia.

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gderf
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Re: No version of Deluge that works on all modern OSes

Postby gderf » Mon Mar 29, 2021 4:44 pm

chorse wrote:Now it's a year or so later and I upgraded my main machine Ubuntu to 20.04 - focal. As far as I can see there's no straightforward way of installing Deluge 1.3 on focal - it's only 2.x in the packages and the PPA, I think.


Docker will run on just about anything. And Deluge runs easily in a docker.

I run Deluge 1.3.15, several instances of it, on docker on my OMV headless server.

For the client side I run Deluge-gtk 1.3.15-2 on my Linux Mint 19.3 desktop.

chorse
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Re: No version of Deluge that works on all modern OSes

Postby chorse » Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:06 pm

ashmandias wrote:Deluge 2 works on Windows/OSX -- there is just no pre built package provided by the Debian project --which I believe is because no Windows/OSX user has stepped up and offered to take on that work load. Are you interested in helping out?


No, sorry, I have enough workload with the other projects I'm involved in and it isn't something I have any experience or interest in. Also, it seems like some people already did the legwork, you just have to run the executable from some random guy's google drive :lol:

Also, you're saying that as if Deluge was a Debian project which the non-Linux people are free to build from source if they feel like it. The Deluge homepage brags front and center that Deluge is cross-platform and that 2.x is available for Linux, macOS and Windows - that's just misleading and it has been like that for a while.

ashmandias wrote:As for the catcha I agree it could be better, and easier for the windows users -- but generally speaking, all you really need to know are the 3 most common OSes -- and use process of elimination. Is Windows named after Bill Windows? Is there a Steve OSX wandering around ? :-D the argument could be made that Debian should be accepted (but it is named after 3 people) or some lesser known distros like Knoppix,

I agree that there are better captchas, but this one is not exactly esoteric trivia.


I'm going to have to disagree here. One thing is knowing that Linux (and Git) was named after Linus (which is obvious to pretty much software developers but very few of "computer users", which could use the forum), but the other thing is the phrasing:

OS or Distro: What is the main operating system or distribution you are running Deluge on?
What answer to the above question is named after a person?


Well the answer to that question in my case is KDE Neon and it's not named after a person, so it already doesn't make sense. So people are supposed to make the mental leap of translating the question to "What truthful answer that someone might possibly give to the above question would be a name of a project named after a person". Ok, let's think about that, the answers that come to my mind are OSX | Windows | Ubuntu | Arch | Gentoo | Mint | ... and to my knowledge neither of those are named after a person.

Rephrasing that to "Which operating system was named after that Torvalds guy" would be much more straightforward, would offer the same amount of protection against spambots and still wouldn't be an adequate question for the job. It's not about gatekeeping people based on their knowledge of the Linux lore, just making sure the forums aren't spammed by bots.

gderf wrote:Docker will run on just about anything. And Deluge runs easily in a docker.

I run Deluge 1.3.15, several instances of it, on docker on my OMV headless server.

For the client side I run Deluge-gtk 1.3.15-2 on my Linux Mint 19.3 desktop.


Good for you.

I'm aware of Docker and that any headless application that ever ran on Linux can technically be run on it. But I used it enough to know I don't want to use it if I can help it AND it doesn't solve my problem: The server already runs Deluge 1.3, it's my desktop machine that got updated to Ubuntu 20.04 - and I don't think I'm going to run the GUI app in Docker.

---

Anyways, disregard me, I'm mainly venting my frustrations. I'm probably going to move to 1.3 web ui and look into rtorrent/qBittorrent if I get fed up with it.

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Re: No version of Deluge that works on all modern OSes

Postby gderf » Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:36 pm

You don't need to run the GUI app in docker. I don't. Install a copy of Deluge-gtk, or just use the WebUI from any browser.

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Re: No version of Deluge that works on all modern OSes

Postby ashmandias » Tue Mar 30, 2021 11:33 am

chorse wrote:
No, sorry, I have enough workload with the other projects I'm involved in and it isn't something I have any experience or interest in.


You refusing to install 2 does not mean 2 does not work.

You not liking 1.3 does not mean 1.3 does not work.

You said there is no version of Deluge that works on all modern OSes. This is untrue. There are two versions of Deluge that work on all modern OSes.


Also, it seems like some people already did the legwork, you just have to run the executable from some random guy's google drive :lol:



As I previously stated, they have not stepped up an become part of the Deluge team.


Also, you're saying that as if Deluge was a Debian project which the non-Linux people are free to build from source if they feel like it. The Deluge homepage brags front and center that Deluge is cross-platform and that 2.x is available for Linux, macOS and Windows - that's just misleading and it has been like that for a while.



What is misleading? Can you run Deluge 2 on Linux? yes. On OSX? yes. Windows? Yes. Does it require installation? yes. Is that normal? yes. Do some OSes have less polished installers? Yes. Is that normal? Yes -- only this time it's not Linux with the short end of the stick.


I'm going to have to disagree here. One thing is knowing that Linux (and Git) was named after Linus (which is obvious to pretty much software developers but very few of "computer users", which could use the forum), but the other thing is the phrasing:



Well the answer to that question in my case is KDE Neon and it's not named after a person, so it already doesn't make sense.



KDE Neon is neither an operating system, nor a distro. It's a Desktop Environment. That's like stating your favorite breakfast food is 'spoon', and then complaining that a question about 'which breakfast food is made out of flat flakes of corn, commonly eaten out of a bowl with milk?' makes no sense. Is your favorite car 'steering wheel'? Your favorite actor 'makeup'? Again, I grant that including 'distribution' in the captcha could be confusing -- but you are taking a right turn here.


So people are supposed to make the mental leap of translating the question to "What truthful answer that someone might possibly give to the above question would be a name of a project named after a person".



No, they are supposed to make the 'mental leap' to 'which operating system or distribution is named after a person?' I already granted that 'distribution' makes it unclear, as there are several distributions named after people which should also be accepted as answers -- but in your entire rant you have named only 3 OSes (4 if you count OSX/MacOS as two different things), and as previously mentioned the process of elimination can get you to one pretty quick, even if you do not know the answer, and refuse to google it.


Ok, let's think about that, the answers that come to my mind are OSX | Windows | Ubuntu | Arch | Gentoo | Mint | ... and to my knowledge neither of those are named after a person.



Even though you have *repeatedly* mentioned three operating systems above, now -- you are now refusing to admit you can think of three operating systems? It should also be noted you now seem to be admitting 'KDE' is a nonsense answer in the first place...


Rephrasing that to "Which operating system was named after that Torvalds guy" would be much more straightforward, would offer the same amount of protection against spambots and still wouldn't be an adequate question for the job. It's not about gatekeeping people based on their knowledge of the Linux lore, just making sure the forums aren't spammed by bots.



I already agreed that the phrasing could be better, but again, you are blurring the line between poor phrasing, and esoteric knowledge. I'd say you would have a much stronger point, if your point did not require you pretending you do not know of a third major operating system (or even what an operating system/distro is) -- which you had already referenced multiple times. It seems like you are stretching now to say that you can't think of an operating system beyond OSX and Windows, when this entire thread is based on complaining that the three major desktop operating systems have different installation curves for the major Deluge versions.

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Re: No version of Deluge that works on all modern OSes

Postby ashmandias » Tue Mar 30, 2021 11:37 am

gderf wrote:You don't need to run the GUI app in docker. I don't. Install a copy of Deluge-gtk, or just use the WebUI from any browser.

It seems the problem is that they are arguing that being asked to install software before using it means the software doesn't work at all..

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Re: No version of Deluge that works on all modern OSes

Postby mhertz » Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:38 pm

ashmandias wrote:
chorse wrote:Also, it seems like some people already did the legwork, you just have to run the executable from some random guy's google drive :lol:



As I previously stated, they have not stepped up an become part of the Deluge team.


Sorry, just wanted to state that you're right of-course, and just wanted to clarify that I would have asked if I could help, if had anything to offer the dev team(or made a PR), but i'm not clever enough for that unfortunetly. I had looked at the main issue hindering the missing windows installers(pyinstaller freezing deluge/deps), and is way over my head, so got nowhere. I apologize for the off-topicness.

I agree with ashmandias completely also btw - If wanna see deluge go foreward, then either contribute, or donate to support Cas working more on the project, simple as that, that is the way stuff like this works - talk is cheap ;)

https://github.com/deluge-torrent/deluge/pulls
https://www.patreon.com/deluge_cas

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Re: No version of Deluge that works on all modern OSes

Postby ashmandias » Tue Mar 30, 2021 5:38 pm

mhertz wrote:Sorry, just wanted to state that you're right of-course, and just wanted to clarify that I would have asked if I could help, if had anything to offer the dev team(or made a PR), but i'm not clever enough for that unfortunetly. I had looked at the main issue hindering the missing windows installers(pyinstaller freezing deluge/deps), and is way over my head, so got nowhere. I apologize for the off-topicness.

I agree with ashmandias completely also btw - If wanna see deluge go foreward, then either contribute, or donate to support Cas working more on the project, simple as that, that is the way stuff like this works - talk is cheap ;)

https://github.com/deluge-torrent/deluge/pulls
https://www.patreon.com/deluge_cas



Personally, I have absolutely zero interest in packaging on Windows or Apple products, and the Linux side seems well taken care of. I have considered making Windows packages for this project, and several overs, even though I would not personally use them, but I am massively dissuaded by the attitude of the users that tend to want the packages. I tend to stick to financial support (I have not donated in a long time though) and providing user support -- both in the official channels, and via less official ones.

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Re: No version of Deluge that works on all modern OSes

Postby chorse » Tue Mar 30, 2021 7:09 pm

ashmandias wrote:KDE Neon is neither an operating system, nor a distro. It's a Desktop Environment. That's like stating your favorite breakfast food is 'spoon', and then complaining that a question about 'which breakfast food is made out of flat flakes of corn, commonly eaten out of a bowl with milk?' makes no sense. Is your favorite car 'steering wheel'? Your favorite actor 'makeup'? Again, I grant that including 'distribution' in the captcha could be confusing -- but you are taking a right turn here.


Wow friend, you were so preoccupied with trying to ridicule me you forgot to check if you knew what you were talking about!

If KDE Neon isn't a distro, you should tell the poor folks working on it, they must be a terribly confused bunch of people. Take a look here: https://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=kdeneon or https://neon.kde.org/

You don't need to run the GUI app in docker. I don't. Install a copy of Deluge-gtk, or just use the WebUI from any browser.


@gderf - I explained my problem twice, let me try again. There's no pre-packaged version of Deluge-gtk 1.3 for Ubuntu 20.04 or a prepackaged version of Deluge 2.0 for OSX or Windows.

---

What y'all are saying is basically "Things with Deluge are perfect as they are. If users rely on prepackaged applications, they're wrong and we don't need them. A real man/woman is always happy to compile from source and spend time debugging unfamiliar code. If users (multiple users, not just @chorse) report problems signing up for the forums, they're also wrong and we don't need them".

Enjoy your mutual appreciation society around this dying project :lol:


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